Over at his blog HEALTHHABITS, DR has pointed out an interesting story about a politician in the British Parliament named David Cameron who threw political correctness out the window and laid out his thoughts on the “obese, idle and poor”.
As DR puts it well, he is 100% politically incorrect, and 100% right.
Cameron says:
We as a society have been far too sensitive. In order to avoid injury to people’s feelings, in order to avoid appearing judgemental, we have failed to say what needs to be said. We have seen a decades-long erosion of responsibility, of social virtue, of self-discipline, respect for others, deferring gratification instead of instant gratification.”
There is a danger of becoming quite literally a de-moralised society, where nobody will tell the truth anymore about what is good and bad, right and wrong. That is why children are growing up without boundaries, thinking they can do as they please, and why no adult will intervene to stop them – including, often, their parents. If we are going to get any where near solving some of these problems, that has to stop.”
VERY – well – put.
His main idea is that while there are definitely strong external (environmental) factors that serve to influence a person’s weight or income level, he says that ultimately social problems are the result of the choices that individuals make.
This idea falls back on PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It is VERY bold for a politician to even suggest that people are lacking in this area. An idea that many voters would claim is an attack on their choice of lifestyle.
God forbid that our representatives suggest something that may be in their people’s best interest!
I think people’s ego’s get in the way of tackling the root of their problems. They find it easier to look at the external factors that are keeping them from something, instead of looking back at themselves.
Because I have thought a lot about it, it’s easier for me to come up with endless choices that people make that would cause them to be overweight. I’ve mentioned a lot of them before. However, I can only speculate the many choices that make, or keep a person poor. Perhaps some of my readers can help out with this one? I will say that at it’s simplest, most people are born into a certain lifestyle and many decisions are made for them growing up. So both the overweight and the poor would have to choose to take their life in a different direction if they are not happy with the way things exist.
Obviously, as Cameron said, there will always be strong external factors at work that make change difficult. But, as always, no ones destiny is set in stone.
I would love, love, LOVE to see what would happen if a major politician in the U.S. said these kinds of things. We need it to happen though. Badly.
Check out DR’s blog entry, entitled “You’re Fat?… It’s Your Fault” to find a video of David Cameron speaking and a link to the story.
He’s got some big b*lls. Good for him.
“His main idea is that while there are definitely strong external (environmental) factors that serve to influence a person’s weight or income level, he says that ultimately social problems are the result of the choices that individuals make.”
I’m torn about the idea that social problems are due to individual choices. For instance, I do not think that a person’s weight and income level should even be put in the same category. I believe that people have more control over the food they put in their mouths than their income levels. Further, I think that even a person that makes good personal choices may not or cannot break out of poverty because of all the societal contraints. I do believe that many low income people make the (poor) choice to have children when they are still too young, which just perpetuates the cycle of poverty. HOWEVER, the child care low income children get put in, the school they go to, the community they grow up in, the jobs that are available to them are mostly NOT THEIR CHOICE. Yes, they can make choices about how much they pay attention in school, but they cannot help being at a sucky school with sucky teachers!! This then influences their later possibilities of getting well-paying jobs that would help them break the cycle of poverty. Once individuals grow up in poverty there are SO many societal/external/environmental constraints that can prevent them from removing themselves from poverty.
In contrast, I believe that even poor people can make healthy diet and life style choices. They may grow up being fatter because their parents fed them crap, but ultimately they can choose the salad over the hamburger. They may not have the choice of working at McDonalds or as a secretary because they do not have the skills necessary to do the latter job.
I HIGHLY doubt that any politician that wants to get elected would even dare say anything like this. And if s/he would… s/he would most likely be REPUBLICAN!
Lucy said it. Talking about individual choices is well and good medicine to make you feel better about your hate for fat people, but it won’t get you anywhere meaningful. The obesity “problem,” if you want to use that word, is more of a social phenomenon than an individual one. This is why obesity rates have risen to include so many people in such a short period of time. Something larger is going on here than a bunch of people all of a sudden changing their judgment independently of one another.
Think on it for yourself. Me, I’m heading off to my McDinner. Two double cheeseburgers, a large fries, an extra large Mr. Pibb, and two Oreo McFlurries. Then, it’ll no doubt be off to bed for a romp with the boyfriend. Have fun pouting with David Cameron while we fat people go on enjoying our lives without your regard. G’nite!
I’ve always deplored other blogs that moderate all comments they receive, especially those that lay out the requirements for leaving a comment.
I now understand (only VERY SLIGHTLY) why they do it.
Teresa, I’m going to give you just 2 rules to follow if you would like to continue to comment on my blog:
1. Please don’t comment unless you have something pertinent to say about a particular post.
2. Don’t EVER bring up anything about your personal life of being a feedee and having sexual relations with your feeder/personal care provider. It has no relevance whatsoever with any topic I have written about. If I decide to write about feeders/feedees in the future, then I will happily welcome your thoughts. I imagine, though, it will take me some time to gain the mental strength to write about that.
To respond to a post by bringing up your personal life is a very sophomoric way of arguing, and contributes nothing to the discussion.
Your logic as to why the obesity epidemic is a problem is undeniably flawed. You live in a bubble in a different world that doesn’t reflect the views of any significant section of society.
Recognize that I am asking you to do these things, when I could be banning you. While your representation of society is small, it is nonetheless a viewpoint, and I welcome all viewpoints. Understand that it is difficult to read and understand your viewpoint on a particular subject when it is cluttered with personal details, personal attacks on me and my other commenters, and other random things that don’t pertain to the topic at hand.
My first paragraph was exactly on topic. I was offering that the increase in obesity rates is social and not individual. My second paragraph was just another salvo in that oh so witty repartee you anti-fat bigots love to fire off.
It does frustrate you that we fat people are enjoying our lives while you stew in your childish hatred of us, doesn’t it? Your defensive, overdramatic reply kinda gives you away on that count. You could have just chuckled and rolled your eyes at the misguided fat chick, or maybe even offered an extra step in our mutual line of thinking, which would have benefited all of us. Instead, you felt threatened enough to go on the defensive on your own blog…even though I’m a one-gal minority against your company of likeminded naysayers. Who’s living in an insular world, remind me?
As a fat person, I used to have to deal with people like you every day. (I don’t go out much anymore, but it’s just as bad when I do.) I can guarantee you that, by necessity if nothing else, but also by curiosity, I have given a great deal more thought to fatness and fat people than you are ever likely to, given that your thinking on the subject consists mostly of repetition and slander. With my serendipitous arrival, you had an opportunity here to get some of those other “viewpoints” you claim to welcome, McBloggy, but I’m afraid it’ll never work out between us. Flawed logic? Immature behavior? Look in the mirror. You’re just another one of those self-absorbed males who never really grew up, and happens to revel in a bigotry that society has not yet gotten around to condemning.
Oh well. Dwell not on what could have been! It’s your blog, not mine, and so the rules are yours. I’m out of here! Go ahead and delete my comments if you like; I won’t be around to see your response, anyhow. Meanwhile, enjoy stewing in your own hatred. Maybe you’ll grow out of it someday, at which point you can join me in enjoying life rather than hating other people’s lives!
By the way, a taboo on sex references? What are you, fourteen? My boyfriend was awesome last night. The thing about fat sex that you’ll never understand is that the human body is such a sensual thing, and, when there’s so much more of it, that sensuality gets multiplied beyond the wildest dreams of your imagination. All 455 of my sweaty, jiggly pounds shaking and quaking as I gasp for air and just lie there enjoying what my man can do with his stuff…you bet that rocks.
Bye. =)
Thanks for attacking me with another novel, again.
As I said, I don’t mind if you want to comment on a specific topic I write about. I just don’t want to hear about your personal life anymore. Please!
You just keep turning each of your comments into a stab at this blog in general, and then a stab at me. If you don’t like it, then why are you here? (ABSOLUTELY a rhetorical question)
I’m just a reader, but Teresa doesn’t understand the point, so I had to comment.
I choose to eat pizza, instead of salad. I choose to skip my workout. You choose to do nothing but eat and have sex. We all make choices. And these choices have consequences. Just in case you didn’t realize, all that food you ate is contributing to your inability to lead a life outside of your house.
And just so you won’t think I’m a lightweight: I am 11 pounds overweight, ofcourse I do have 2 kids, but even before them I’ve always been a bit overweight.
I love life. I enjoy it. But my love of life is not me sitting inside my home afraid to go outside. My love of life comes from going sailing and rock climbing, matinee movies and window shopping. I may not be the slimmest girl on the beach, but I enjoy the ocean (in my one piece mind you, cause I gots me a mommy tummy).
So when Teresa says : “As a fat person, I used to have to deal with people like you every day. (I don’t go out much anymore, but it’s just as bad when I do.)”
All I can think is, how the hell do you enjoy life when you barely even go outside. Human beings were not meant to work in tiny cubicles or sit inside watching tv all day. If you lost weight, even a little, it may not make you feel better about yourself, but it would allow you the ability to be a part of the world with the rest of humanity.
Now, if you have no problem with being secluded and fat, and you enjoy yourself, then don’t come on here to comment. I assure you, you will not be missed and we will all continue to enjoy our lives in this beautiful, though sometimes violent, world.
dyeyell, thanks for your comment.
You make some excellent points, but what makes sense to you and me is not necessarily true for a person like her. It’s not worth trying to understand it either.
May I take the honors of sharing a bit of my “politically incorrectness” with you? (Yes, I’m back!)
I am afraid, as usual, that you’re examining a complex subject in the most simplistic one-dimensional of ways.
So, a politician says being fat is bad and unhealthy. Does it really take a politician to get people to lose weight? Let’s wait and see. I’d be most curious to see if it helps Britain get out of their nappies and stretch pants. I wish someone had told me that I was a smoker when I used to be a smoker because that would have helped me stop smoking much faster and with more ease. Ah well…
By the way, do you not read newspapers and watch the news outside fat news? What Mr. Cameron said is not alien in the US. I know you better. And I know you get out some. But your text doesn’t match up.
Hmm… It appears to me that if you read or watch any political news at all, it is limited to left-wing news? Do yourself a big favor. Turn on Fox News. And really watch the players. Then subscribe to some right-wing newspapers on the web to hear what our politicians and right-winged political pundits are saying. In my opinion, Mr. Cameron didn’t shake, rattle or roll anything. I read what you quoted a few times trying to find something offensive to no avail. See, Britain is different from America. (Yes!! There are actually cultural differences!) There are still elementary students wearing diapers to school. Yes, this is a serious problem. One that makes me cringe too. Ack.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1026958/Absolutely-potty-How-children-wearing-nappies-SCHOOL–dire-risks-health.html
Bad parenting also is nothing “new”. I don’t know why people are just pointing these things out now? Truly, some things are getting worse like fatties and crime. Yes, crime (including sexual abuse) has gone up (way up) …and fatties. I find an interesting connection there although it has nothing to do with my case. I realize that you find psychology to be a pseudo-science revolved around making excuses, enabling and coddling, but I do find a connection. And I am of the belief that EVERYTHING happens for a reason, and that society and language is continuously evolving all over the world as we speak. Remember the middle ages? I am just trying to get you to think a bit deeper than the obvious and what only can be seen on the surface. Keep in mind that not everything is one-dimensional.
Have you ever delved into Anthropology or Criminology? I’m dead serious (no pun intended). It may be a good start for you in your genuine quest for truth and finding what makes humans tick the way they do. Do some reading. You also must understand that we are not all perfect like you are. Whether we like it or not (and we don’t have to) humans do all sorts of weird stuff. While it may not make sense to some, addictions and having crutches makes sense for others. There is always a reason. Ah, forget about humans. Even studying animals – real animals will tell you a lot.
I, like you, have pet peeves. I, like you, enjoy venting. But the both of us are going to have to – at some point in time, learn to DEAL with those things we aren’t happy with. With the aging of society, there will always be GOOD changes and BAD changes. This is life.
Talk about being “politically incorrect”, have you ever had Aussie friends, studied their culture or have been to Australia? I’m surprised no politician spoke up for Aussies as they are now the fattest nation in the world!! I expect you to know this with your expertise on this subject.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/nine-million-australians-are-a-ticking-fat-bomb-20080619-2tjv.html
Talking about fat people really isn’t as “scary” as you would like to think. Try discussing more controversial matters like homosexuality or other things that raise eyebrows MORE. There is a big debate going on in the US as to whether or not being gay come from THE GENES. Some say people can’t control being gay, so stop making fun of them because it’s out of their hands! This has been genetically proven. But I reckon that it carries similar weight as to the gene debate and obesity. Why are gays popping up all over the place in America, Canada, and Europe in MODERN SOCIETY? Have we seen this before? Aw shucks. Homosexuality cannot be really seen on the surface like the obese. Oh well…. At least I tried. But you see what I am trying to say, right? Back when I was growing up, God apparently said that AIDS was the punishment for homosexuals. Now, today we are seeing that AIDS is *not* specific to gays.
Ok. This is why a politician spoke up about the fat epidemic in Britain: 1) They are a bit competitive with America and they don’t want to see their nation follow the likes of American sidewalk-woddlers, and 2) you are aware that they are under the National Health System, right? In case you didn’t know, they get “free” health care but are paying a lot in taxes for it. If there is a fatty epidemic, it puts a strain on the system. So, there’s your answer. The Brits aren’t “politically incorrect” as you were hoping them to be. This person had to say this. In all actuality, Britain is probably one of the most politically CORRECT nations out there next to Canada. (By the way, there is a fine line between being politically incorrect and not having manners. There’s also a BIG difference between being honest and downright rude and mean).
But America is on a slippery slope, indeed. However, my problem with America is a bit different than yours. I remember as a child, people still saying “please”, “thank you”, and all the other things associated with being polite. Back in the 1930’s my mother was taught that if you don’t have anything nice to say, than don’t say anything at all. She taught that to me too. Naturally, I paid no attention to it. My point is, “being nice” is not limited or taught in the present like you think it is. I will be 40 soon. Trust me. What you are seeing is not “new”.
Now, I see that we Americans are changing and are beginning to lose our social graces. And this has NOTHING to do with fat people. Americans are just plain rude. Ever called customer service in this country? Ever work for the general public? Keep in mind why other countries call us rude, obnoxious, arrogant and the like. It’s for a very good reason. And with that said, this is where Anti-Americanism IS justified. See, I like people to be honest with me too but only if it is in a manner that this person is genuinely concerned about me. If that is the case, I truly listen to their advice and am touched by it. I would like to think that most people agree with me and are like this too. But too many people like you, hide behind several veneers to get your message across proclaiming that you’re trying to help when all you really are is just irritated and disgusted! There’s a difference. Your overly simplistic way of examining things is your biggest problem. As you can see, like you, I don’t sugar-coat my words.
We are also seeing more “humanitarians” like you around “concerned” about the health of others. We have many of you in the US as Teresa mentioned above (you wouldn’t know unless you were fat, yourself) and …. oh my, another one somewhere in England who is involved with politics that “cares”. Now, THAT is what I expect from a politician: one that cares! What a concept. A politician that REALLY CARES! Uh huh. Here’s what I find most curious. If “health” was the true concern, something would have also been said about their alcoholism and cigarette problem.
Shhh…..
Maybe if someone just told the American people that they were fat, our problems would be solved too? Who do WE need to tell us? Obama?, Clinton?, McCain?, Bush?, Oprah? … you?
Even one of the most liberal shows on TV, “The View” has said things to stir the pot that were not so politically correct.
By the way, telling someone something that they don’t feel comfortable hearing doesn’t necessarily mean it’s “politically incorrect”. If you truly want your cheerleaders to honor you for being politically incorrect, you might want to give your “messages of humanitarian aid” to these people to their faces in public. And do it alone! Print out some flyers and tell them your “Fat Mission” and how they make you shiver. THAT takes guts.
See, here’s the thing. On the internet, we are protected by a shield. It’s anything goes in cyberspace. You are doing nothing but pressing keys behind a monitor. And you feel nice and safe there right behind it. What can people possibly do to hurt you other than disagree?
I also surely hope that you are against social programs/welfare for the needy in the US as well. Then your theme of “personal responsibility” will be consistent. Same for the leftist DR on board in Canada as well. I don’t know… it is just me? I just cannot see a Nanny State and “personal responsibility” used in the same sentence. What do you think? You do realize that Canada, Australia, Europe and some other countries are Nanny States, right? America isn’t – although the right-wingers would beg to differ but they have not yet taken the time to compare and contrast.
What I find quite revealing is that most people who go on and on about personal responsibility are usually the same people that when they NEED something have their hands out…. on MY tax dollar too! This is why the words alone of being “personally responsible” really don’t impress me. Humans are needy animals. We all are. Some admit it. Others are in denial. Some will be opportunistic and proclaim personal responsibility for some things and fall on their back drooling and begging for others. Oops… speaking of denail… back to the fatties!
Also, I’d like to mention that you find it extreme that the fat are way too coddled in society enabling Americans to get fatter and fatter, right? So, do you find it necessary to attack this culture with another extreme? Is it just me that find sites like these to be the most helpful? I know that you are catering to a specific audience, but really check these out.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-carb-binge/
http://aiminghigher.blogspot.com/
The above aren’t “fat coddling” sites. They, in fact, don’t take sides. They simply supply facts to the masses. They have VERY valuable and truly educational information there on how to maintain your health along with many interesting tips to help you on the road to health. Recipes using veggies can be found literally all over the World Wide Web, so there is no excuse for one to not have a clue. Some people are really trying to find the easy way out when there really is none. You have to do the research yourself, get off your arse and see fitness advisors and nutritionists.
I would also be curious to know how many fat people out there don’t know that they are fat and 2) have an excuse versus those who take full responsibility for being fat (these would be the people that choose to be huge). Would you mind taking your time to run a study on this? I’m just curious, and I know that you aren’t the lazy type.
I think when we don’t like certain behaviors that we exaggerate things in our minds to make issues seem bigger (no pun intended) than they are, but I could be wrong. (It takes one to know one.) Additionally, I am sure you realize that fat is not the only thing that people make excuses for, right? Being poor is now a choice too, and I feel honored that I’ve got the chance to be enlightened here.
Seriously, though, I think that what some of your readers including myself have in common with you, is that we all don’t like dishonest people? I see that you are very nice to the fatties here that admit they prefer pizza over broccoli. All we have to do is just come clean. Dear McBloggenstein, I am fat. It’s my fault. There.
Just out of curiosity, do YOU take responsibility for your every err and flaw? Or are you poifect? Or do you admit to a wee bit of hypocrisy? Trust me. You’re not “politically incorrect”. You wouldn’t have such a big fan base if you were. In any event, you are still young. Some events will happen to you worse than in your past, and it will change the way you think. Like I said, humans are needy animals. You’ll see.
I consider myself to be politically incorrect because I manage to perhaps piss more people off than you do! Do I get a cookie?
Ah. Forgive my sarcasm. You know I mean well, right?
Are
you
serious?
I don’t have the foggiest idea of what your point is.
I also don’t have the patience to respond to every random rambling that you vomit onto my blog. If it were someone else, then I probably would, but I have tired of you.
If you want to say that I’m avoiding the points that you are trying to make, then that is fine with me. Your points are so clouded within your general critique of me and my blog that I don’t care to weed them out.
It’s frustrating to address specific points when they are mixed among personal attacks.
In no form of professional discussion or debate is there ever room for personal attacks.
You have yet to understand that a blog is where an author expresses an opinion. If you don’t happen to agree with it, then look elsewhere.
I’m not saying that everyone has to agree with my opinion, and I have never even come close to claiming that I am an expert on anything. When I read your comments, it seriously feels like you are talking to your other personalities.
I don’t care what you have to say anymore. If you feel that other people do, then say it on your own blog.
I know Teresa isn’t coming back, but I just wanted to say the above is an important point. I am sure that people outside have thought that I’ve never taken the time to self-reflect because I am a very cheerful person when I’m among others. It may even seem like I don’t care. However, I don’t think that anyone could be harder than I am on myself, in general. This is why it is kinda ridiculous to be called fat because it’s like…. “Uh tell me something I didn’t know?”
On the flip-side, some of my fat-compatriots whine and they’re banished as well. So, there’s no pleasing anybody.
Another thing. If we’re lazy, we’re mocked. If we do something about it like go to the gym or go for a power-walk, we’re mocked again. No winning.
One more. If we order fast fried food, the guy next in line will tell the fattie that they don’t need that. However, if the fattie orders a salad and some water, we’ll be told that we’re just ordering this food as a “facade” and that we’re really going home to eat two cakes. No winning.
People are silly like that. See, McB., you’re not alone in trying to figure people out.
People who are thin really don’t believe that a fat-stigma exists or doesn’t exist hard-core enough – hence they think they are being politically incorrect when they put down the obese. However if you are a woman and are over 120 lbs, you DO feel it…. everywhere in society. It’s almost weird to be accepted – when it does happen. But don’t confuse acceptance/tolerance with “enabling”. It just means that someone is either being polite or genuinely doesn’t care about a person’s appearance. I know these people must be out there because when I was fit, I never bullied fat people.
Lastly, I have a question.
1) Why is it that so many American women are fit and pretty when they date, get married, but as soon as they have a child, they become 1-200 lbs heavier and never lose the weight? This is not just a few cases. It has happened so often that it’s become a cliche. I have my boring ideas why, but I’m curious about yours. I’m curious about the timing of their decision to become fat.
I’m most definitely sure that she and you both have thought about fatness more than I will likely ever. It makes very much sense that someone that actually lives the kind of life that I use as a topic of discussion would think about it more in their day to day lives because they have to deal with all of the personal and social stigmas… and I don’t.
Do you think that because of that fact that only people of color should discuss racism? That only financially unstable people/families should discuss problems with the economy? That only parents should study, teach, or write books about how to raise a child? I would disagree. I don’t believe that just because one does not live in another person’s shoes can they not bring up some valid points and participate in a discussion about an aspect of the other person’s life.
For the record, I would never think this way. I have HUGE respect for someone that is obviously making an effort to change for the positive.
I think that’s pretty obvious. And, what does that matter? I’m going to make a guesstimate here, that somewhere around the nice round number of six billion other people on this planet are also trying to figure other people out. Is that not human nature? How many millions of blogs exist out there that discuss every topic you can imagine? How many are there out there that are very similar to mine? To yours? So what? I started typing one day, and seemed to have gained a little audience. So did you.
Honestly, I really couldn’t guess. I’ve thought about this before, but because I haven’t really been able to come up with very many thoughts on reasons it may happen, I never posted about it. I don’t have any life experience with this occurrence. Now, if I were to read another blogs ideas on this subject, or an article with someone else’s opinions, then I could possibly be compelled to feel like agreeing or disagreeing. Now, if the post were written by a woman who gained weight after marriage, and decided to write about how it happened, then there is nothing for anyone to agree or disagree with. Would you like to write a guest post on this subject?
Please remember this whenever you want to comment, or feel the urge to attack me personally and my blog: (for the hundredth time) I don’t have an aversion to fat people in general; ONLY those that do not want to be fat, complain about it to other people, claim they can do nothing about it, and don’t even try to do anything about it (or give a very weak try). I really feel that if you understood this when you comment, that you would not feel the need to attack so incessantly. I would like to be able to address your thoughts, but if you make it personal, I will completely disregard them.
i think that one point virgomonkey was trying to make is that many women gain weight after being pregnant and having a child. Most women gain between 25-40 lbs when pregnant and struggle losing it when they have young kids. Its not easy to find time to excersise when you have two toddlers needing attention all the time. Also, women’s bodies and hormones change after giving birth, which increases the difficulty of losing weight.
So.. not an excuse for all those fat people.. but just something for you to think about.
Hi Rachel,
Honestly, I didn’t realize that VM may have been stressing the gaining weight due to becoming pregnant aspect. I was reading her question as more of just the occurrence of weight gain after settling down, which would include marriage and kids; as in, letting oneself go after leaving the dating world.
Whichever meaning was intended, the points you made are very valid and make a lot of sense, and I would agree with you. However, I don’t see why it is brought up.
I recognize that some people have gained weight for various reasons other than diet and lifestyle, and may have a harder time losing it than others for those reasons, but I am generally not talking about these people. To a point, I am, because even though it is harder to lose for them, it’s almost never impossible, and I’ve never suggested that people should lose weight for me or anyone else but themselves. I generally target people’s poor diets and unhealthy lifestyle choices that cause them to be so fat that their wellbeing suffers for it.
Hi,
I just brought it up because I felt compelled to clarify one of VM points. After reading your fat mission and a variety of your blogs I do see that you generally target people with poor diets and lifestyles. I didnt imply that you suggested that people should lose weight for you or anyone else but themselves. I guess I just felt like making that point clearer that I dont think that gaining weight necessarily has to do with settling down and getting married, but with having kids. And it seems we agree and more or less see eye to eye on this topic.
Cool, I apreciate your thoughts.
This comment thread sorta wondered off topic… anyways, back to Lucy’s original comment… I agree that it is irresponsible of a politician, especially a British politician to pair poverty as a choice with obesity as a choice.
When looking at the two while it is true that some choice is involved it is important to consider the accessibility of choices. That is, can a people of different economic situations make similar choices to benefit themselves, and can people of different fitness /weight levels make similar choices to benefit themselves. I think the answer is no.
While I did not read all of VM’s postings I did see one sentence in there that did apply.
In Britian and Canada (I’m a cannuck) and most other developed nations we do have some form of Universal Health Care, which basically means we pay higher taxes and receive free health care regardless of income level, insurance coverage etc…
To that end and I’m sure this will rile some people if they are reading, I think that obesity as it impacts the social infrastructure becomes a personal and a social problem and in a country with universal health care while I do not agree in any circumstance with refusing care I do believe in allowing our government, and society in general to put pressure on individuals to act responsibly so that they share our health care resources.
Lets look at the choice ranges for the obese person and the fit and healthy person. Ignoring what I do believe is the small amount of obese people who are unable to manage their weight with the help of diet, medication and / or exercise due to a chronic illness, the majority of obese people can make a choice to become more active and choose to eat healthier foods. This will result in weight loss and better fitness and overall health if continued in the long run.
On the other hand if you compare two people one from a poor background and one from an economically advantaged background the choices that a poor person needs to make are much different from those an economically advantaged person needs to make.
In the first place the economically advantaged person needs only to maintain the status quo, they do not need to work to overcome obstacles between their current position and the position they want to obtain.
A person born into poverty will likely receive a poorer quality education than one born into prosperity. This will mean that person will need to find, and then complete alternative sources of self-educating of finding supplemental community education. They will need to do this at the same time as working (once they are old enough). Meanwhile the person born into privilege can focus on a likely private school with a wide variety of extra-cirriculars provided, and instead of working at a minimum wage job can focus on resume building volunteer and internship positions.
All this assumes in the first place that the person born into poverty is fully aware of why they are poor and what they will need to do to not be poor. Children are told that the best way out of poverty is an education, but consider what these children see. The people they see who are successful are drug dealers, sports stars, actors, etc… All this encourages a dream of the quick fix rather than the educational route, and even many who do try the educational route are simply not exceptional enough to secure the scholarships they would need to truly overcome their initial surroundings.
A poor person can work hard not to be poor, but they require significantly more work and available choices and societal awareness and navigational skills to overcome their barriers to economic prosperity than someone who is simply trying to loose weight.